If I have a terrible time getting a job in the real world, I'll be sure to let you guys know. I ask because I'm considering a switch as well, and I'm pretty far down a career path. Yes. viable alternative to accredited degree programs in Computer Science & Engineering Zip Code Wilmington, a coding bootcamp in Wilmington, Delaware, reports a 93% graduation rate, with 88% of its graduates accepting paid job offers within three months of graduating. Toronto is Canada’s most populated city which makes it the ideal location for some of the country’s most established companies including Thompson Reuters, Celestica Inc, Sears Canada, and Royal Bank of Canada. I just had a class and going to bed soon, first thing tomorrow is coding. That’s plenty of money, but the rate is competitive for the market and is half as much as some programs charge. Things like health and commutes can change exactly how much time individuals spend on site, and so I'm wary about judging people solely on that, but yeah: if you don't love to code it's a waste of time. The cost of a computer science degree versus a bootcamp has multiple layers. I attended a coding bootcamp and got a job within 2 weeks of graduating with a big company. Of course, narrowing down your options can be quite overwhelming, but it doesn’t have to be that way. Read through the Free Coding Bootcamp Guide above to find a free coding bootcamp that works for you. Free coding bootcamps are found online as well in many cities around the U.S. There are a lot of high quality, free resources out there that can help you get started with the basics. This really has altered the way that I view coding bootcamps! Representatives from UCLA Extension said that the program attracts three types of students: 1.) (It costs $30, but there is a free trial.). This was an enlightening conversation. I'm posting this for my wife who will be starting a Master's Degree in Finance in Germany/Berlin 8 months from now. Each applicant gets a mentor to further enhance their skills to fill in any missing gaps. Hey all. I can't speak for all schools because I attended DBC a while ago and got a great job after in a position that used none of the languages I learned there. So, how much is Georgia Tech coding bootcamp? Every big tech hub has at least a handful of them, and some have dozens, like San Francisco. The people who put in extra effort to complete every assignment, come in on weekends, and spend long nights doing homework during the week are the ones who found a job after graduating. I do think I'm still going to write the summary of this stuff, but it will be in a much more positive light and will include clear advice for how to get the most out of these if you're willing to spend the money to attend (and it will include some alternatives, for those who don't have the $6-15k to go). Coding Bootcamps: Overview. If you give it 110%, you will find yourself in a new career. This motivates me even more. I also love Learn Python the Hard Way, which really forces you to do your own research and make sure you understand every concept before you move on. A subreddit for all questions related to programming in any language. Gaining the skills is only part of the battle—you also have to land a software developer position and start working in the field. Many coding bootcamps don't spend much time on algorithms. Uh, you don't need to go back to school or a coding bootcamp if you have an EE background, especially an MS. EE majors are very often found in software engineering. Best Coding Bootcamps in 2021 (A Guide With 22 Choices) by Kyle Prinsloo Last updated Jan. 1, 2020. I respect the OP's opinion, and I can't say I disagree entirely. Georgia Tech Coding Boot Camp Cost. Coding bootcamps are intensive software development training programs that prepare students from diverse backgrounds for careers in the tech industry. Learn to code at home. I've heard the success stories as well as the failures, and ultimately it came down to if I believe I can push myself to learn what is necessary to be employable within a year (you get out what you put in). Ken Mazaika, co-founder and CTO of the Firehose Project, an online coding bootcamp, also sees this trend. Clearly, intensive coding bootcamps that equip participants with in-demand skills are well worth the investment of time, energy, and financial resources. I remember many classes where some students were on their phones or generally not paying attention. REMOTE COURSES NOW AVAILABLE. Similar to military boot camps that turn normal citizens into combat troops, these short, intensive coding bootcamps claim that they can launch you from your current career to a new, tech-focused career in only a matter of weeks. I am curious how much money is involved for these programs. It helps you to focus on important aspects of programming and allows you to solve a real-world problem. The day after I graduated I interviewed with a great company and I got the job. 100% agree. If you're looking at this as a quick & easy way to learn programming so you can get a dev's salary, you're likely going to have trouble finding a job and you're going to waste the time of the companies you're applying to. Many people choose Reddit to learn more about coding bootcamp programs. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. According to a study from Course Report, coding bootcamps across the country will graduate 22,000 students in 2017.This year marks five years since the founding of the first coding bootcamp, and the industry is continuing to grow, with more employer demand for coding bootcamp graduates and at least 95 coding bootcamps throughout the U.S.. If you’re interested in learning to code, here are the best places to begin a new career journey. Location: Firehose Project is located in San Francisco.. Most coding bootcamps advertise job placement rates between 70% and 90%, though it varies based on curriculum, location, and other factors that aren’t available for analysis at this point. Other free bootcamps are self-directed. One user chimed in: “Every friend I know who did a bootcamp and took it seriously now has a job making 60-75k,” which seems to be a common theme among Reddit posts about coding bootcamps. Coding bootcamp may seem expensive, but it’s an excellent investment in your career. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. From there I would try reddit. Off topic, but could you explain why you opted to switch paths after so much education in what is rumored to be a high-paying field? After Sabio Coding Bootcamp, Alberto Scores Job as an App Developer for LA Dodgers. My entire point here is that there is no one thing that will turn you into a programmer (quickly or otherwise). You are an electrical engineer and you are asking how to learn programming? As the leading authority on coding and tech bootcamps, the team at Course Report has been researching, tracking, and sharing updates on the coding bootcamp industry since 2013. Although I disagree, my company had really only been looking at more senior individuals and turned away many many good candidates. Coding bootcamps are a hot subject on Reddit, and the University of Arizona’s program has gathered quite a following. Due to COVID-19, Hackbright’s next in-person courses will take place in 2021. Coding Bootcamp vs College There are many considerations to make when choosing whether to learn to code at a coding bootcamp, or by doing a computer science degree at university. Founders: Marco Morawec and Ken Mazaika. But I decided not to go to a bootcamp since many people share your opinion. What are coding bootcamps? However, the biggest reason why these boot camps are so popular is that they allow people to learn coding within weeks for a lot less than what it costs to get a bachelor’s degree in software engineering. I basically equate the knowledge you get out of code schools with this level. At MIT, EE and CS are considered so interlinked that they're one major (EECS). We can guide you along the process and show you how to get into the best online coding bootcamps. As with most things in life, it's what you do with it. I didn't expect this much upvotes and support. Build projects. I'd be willing to work professionally with most of my group - at least those of us who made it to phase 3 on time. Hi! I understand that some people think it's a scam, but you really get out what you put in. Seoul's top coding bootcamp — wcoding has night or full-time courses in Python, front-end or full-stack development. 100% agree. Please share your stories, good and bad. I'm currently in DBC, phase 3. It helps that I am actually invested and interested in what I am learning, and the same goes for my fellow peers and teachers. However, most job placement-oriented bootcamps cost between around $8,000 and $20,000. Thanks everyone so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences. Many people expect these schools to be a quick fix. Coding bootcamp prices vary widely, but they typically fall between $8,000 and $20,000 in the United States. Redditors opinions vary, and there aren’t too many former students taking to the forum. This bootcamp just helps me accelerate my learning experience. We interviewed bootcamp founders and recent graduates, pored over job placement data, took a deep dive into the curriculum, and toured campuses across the country to determine which coding bootcamps are truly delivering a positive return on investment (ROI) for their students in 2021. If you don't like doing it as a hobby, it's going to be much harder to develop the skills -- in my opinion. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. All you need to do is search for the coding bootcamp that you’re looking to attend. Press J to jump to the feed. If it's too personal a question, I apologize. I'm a recruiter in the tech industry working on an expose of coding bootcamps. It's not even close. Learn to code because there is something you want to build, not because you think you should or because you think there's money in it. So I would like to hear your story/advice. When I first heard about programming bootcamps, my assumption is that they were scams — the slightly more modern version of ITT Tech (which has now been shut down). Don't lie about your level. The ones I know that were serious and had seemed like they actually enjoyed coding (which was a small section of my class) did very well after graduating. Founders: Marco Morawec and Ken Mazaika. In my opinion, the best place to start is LinkedIn. The coding bootcamp model is simple and innovative: in a fraction of the time and for a fraction of the price of a university degree, motivated individuals are taught the skills necessary to lead successful careers in computer, software, and web … Build stuff. In December, online coding bootcamp Lambda School quietly partnered … back — but it’s allowed Lambda to keep operating. In the end, the coding bootcamp you choose is totally up to you. Books can walk you through in the same way college can. Sabio Coding Bootcamp CTO Gregorio Rojas orienting students. After com… I got accepted to App Academy and passed their Bootcamp prep assessments and is set to attend the Feb 8th cohort. design 10 Phoenix Fafsa Gi Bill Developing Ios Apps computer coding boot camp Fullstack web […] Then come up with a project you want to develop (should be large enough to take some time and be challenging but not too large so as to be impossible / discouraging). Reddit is always a great place to look for honest opinions about a topic. Read through the Free Coding Bootcamp Guide above to find a free coding bootcamp that works for you. My Bootcamp was divided into three sections, with each section lasting three weeks. Once I grabbed a book (in my case an Android book), I thought to myself that the theory really wasn't 100% necessary to be able to do this stuff. I don't think the school is scamming people, I think that a lot of the people that are attending these schools aren't in it because they love it. Hear from Flatiron School, Hack Reactor, Fullstack Academy, New York Code + Design Academy, the Grace Hopper Program, Galvanize, and Codesmith. I also know we got way more work than could be physically completed in a day. The key however, is that you must adopt programming as a hobby you do frequently if you want to be able to make a living with it. As the leading authority on coding bootcamps, the team at Course Report has been researching, tracking, and sharing the latest on the coding bootcamp industry since 2013. I am guessing you got the job based on your skill rather than the fact that you worked in a bootcamp. Courses cover everything from JavaScript basics and building SQL database engines to mobile app development. From major worldwide organizations to local university bootcamps, there is something for everyone in Philadelphia’s tech education scene. Plus with almost zero admission requirements, a lot of BCs are gonna have low job numbers. But, I definitely had anxiety about the whole 'bootcamp' thing, due to reading posts like these many times. Code Platoon Bootcamp Prep is designed for individuals who have some introductory experience with programming and are looking for another opportunity to explore their interest in software development. Attended app academy myself and got a job with an amazing startup. Coding bootcamps are flooding the google pages these days, making it even harder to narrow down which one might be right for you. However, some free coding bootcamps are targeted toward specific demographics and require in-person attendance. The Software Guild offers a four to six-week introductory course in web development that provides students with the foundations they need to enroll in full-time apprentice bootcamps. If you have attended a coding bootcamp, know someone who has, or have a strong opinion otherwise, I would love to hear your thoughts. Often, we'd have a discussion on a topic and a student would ask a question that was just answered 5 min ago. Bootcamp grads have flooded the market. Where to Start: Finding Coding Bootcamp Students. This graph shows that from 2010 to 2016, the number of resumes on Indeed with “coding bootcamp” listed as education experience has grown substantially. That was on purpose. Thanks for participating and being so helpful and respectful. The course is 8 months long program, in which there are a lot of mini-courses regarding multiple subjects in the field. Other free bootcamps are self-directed. I'm inclined to think that bootcamp grads aren't top picks for junior dev openings. Free coding bootcamps are found online as well in many cities around the U.S. Having seen other Bootcamp schedules, it is somewhat similar everywhere. Coding bootcamps, similar to many trade schools, are typically run by private, for-profit companies and are offered both in-person or online, depending on the program. In the mean time , she would like to attend a coding bootcamp or take some courses that could help her to break into the Fintech industry. People already in the industry do it on a daily basis 40 hours a week. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the learnprogramming community. by Felix Feng I spent 3 months applying to jobs after a coding bootcamp. I just think there are cheaper options out there. We interviewed bootcamp founders and recent graduates, pored over job placement data, took a deep dive into the curriculum, and toured campuses across the country to determine which coding bootcamps are truly delivering a positive return on investment (ROI) for their students in 2021. This program is designed to prepare participants for completing the … Their training program helps students get hired by top firms including Amazon, Facebook, and Google. The people who put in extra effort to complete every assignment, come in on weekends, and spend long nights doing homework during the week are the ones who found a job after graduating. Plan on paying $11,000 to $12,000. ), Hope that's helpful. Employment rates for coding bootcamp graduates. Once you score a job, your first year's monthly payments will be $199 monthly. Each year, we use our knowledge and expertise, along with over 20,000 alumni reviews, to curate a list of the top online coding bootcamps around the world. Reps from 7 bootcamps give tips and tricks for the coding bootcamp interview and coding challenge. But if you're serious about learning to code, and you're willing to put in a lot of your own time before, during, and after the bootcamp, these programs can be a great way to immerse yourself, learn the basics, and get started. There are some people that leave these camps and do well because they actually like to code. There are several different reasons for this rising popularity of Programming Bootcamps. Since then it's been hard to look back and refer friend to the company since r recruiters won't even give them a chance. Contents Week. We reach students across North America with our Online Live and Chicago offerings. Financing programs (loans) and deferred tuition plans (income-share agreements) are available from many coding bootcamps. So many blogs/posts I've read saying that the tuition is too steep and not worth it. and M.S. Online coding classes are … I am currently attending one of these coding bootcamps, and I fully agree with what you are saying, some people (similar to college students) just show up to class without putting in the necessary time or effort, believing that just graduating the program will make them qualified for work. However, its 30k tuition is starting to be a bit concerning as well as their refund policy. What is it: The Firehose Project Coding Bootcamp offers an online program with part-time and full-time courses.The part-time course consists of 22 weeks while the full-time course is 42 weeks. University of Arizona Coding Bootcamp on Reddit. I can say with confidence that I felt extremely prepared after Sabio, especially with all of the alumni resources provided. Wait... so what's the advice? That said, every student and cohort is different. about what it's like to learn to code, if you haven't read it yet: http://www.vikingcodeschool.com/posts/why-learning-to-code-is-so-damn-hard. The web development market is on fire and there's a huge demand for tech skills.. You can either learn these skills through online courses, YouTube, books or through coding bootcamps. Our comprehensive guide to Toronto coding bootcamps, including the best Toronto code schools, reviews, scholarships, and more! TLDR: Each person is an individual that comes out of these camps. SwitchUp has been tracking coding bootcamps since 2014, and we've become a trusted source for helping people identify the best choices in coding bootcamps. As the leading authority on coding bootcamps, the team at Course Report has been researching, tracking, and sharing the latest on the coding bootcamp industry since 2013. About Trilogy Education Services Trilogy Education is a workforce accelerator that empowers the world’s leading universities to prepare professionals for high-growth careers in the digital economy. In an article published on … Since 2014, more than 40,000 freeCodeCamp.org graduates have gotten jobs at tech companies including Google, Apple, Amazon, and … Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Georgia Tech Coding Bootcamp Job Placement. Think about problems you have and solve them. I got a CS degree but it was theory-heavy, so my practical skills were a bit lacking. If you have a B.S. Whether you need to keep your day job or you want to spend the day coding, we have a program specifically tailored to you. And each year, we use that knowledge and expertise to curate a list of the top 54 immersive coding bootcamps around the world. http://www.vikingcodeschool.com/posts/why-learning-to-code-is-so-damn-hard. Get a firm grasp of the language you want. Your heard right, free. That’s why so many coding bootcamp graduates leave their 15-week course, thinking they’ll glide into a job offer, only to find the process of getting a job after coding bootcamp is painful, arduous, and seemingly never-ending. Some of us tried to finish those challenges on the weekends and late on week nights, and those that did learned a lot in the process. My experience with them - both from my perspective as a hiring manager, and from what I've heard from friends who've attended - has led me to believe they are mostly a waste of money. What is it: The Firehose Project Coding Bootcamp offers an online program with part-time and full-time courses.The part-time course consists of 22 weeks while the full-time course is 42 weeks. Because of my position in the industry, this story will be written 100% anonymously. I think I’m well suited to answer your question, but first, let’s reframe this question just a little bit. With a doubling year-over-year growth since 2010, candidates with “coding bootcamp” education experience now number over 1,000 per 1,000,000 resumes in the Indeed resume database. In my circles, resumes from a coding bootcamp have become such a joke that none of the recruiters I know will even consider someone who has one of these schools on their resume. Every unit in our curriculum is optimized for educational power and efficiency. One of the best things about coding bootcamp is the career guidance that often comes packaged with the training. If you’re interested in learning to code, here are the best places to begin a new career journey. This is clearly a bad situation for the people dropping their money on these immersive classes, and I'd like to help them out (my goal with the story is to give them an actual good alternative to becoming a successful programmer if that's what they're passionate about). I know I wouldn't be as motivated or at least a lot more distracted if I were to learn on my own at home. People who are independent, proactive, and hardworking thrive in a bootcamp setting. The average tuition for a coding bootcamp is about $12,000, and the use of external lending partners has increased dramatically over time – about 20% of students used a lending partner like SkillsFund or Climb Credit in 2017. The Hack Reactor immersive program is an advanced coding bootcamp focused on building autonomous software engineers ready for any job in the tech industry. Each applicant gets a mentor to further enhance their skills to fill in any missing gaps. As a hiring manager, my biggest beef with these schools is that they encourage attendees to pretend they know more than they do. Adam here, co-founder and CEO at Flatiron School, based in New York — we are a coding, data science, and UX/UI design bootcamp. That to me makes me think they were bored. If you have a friend or coworker who's an experienced developer, see if they're open to answering questions as they come up or doing an occasional code review. There’s the amount of time spent training, the actual dollar amount paid, and the Well, I decided to bet on myself for the first time in a long time. Cookies help us deliver our Services. I'm not expecting to instantly be making six figures right out of finishing the bootcamp course (though this is possible), but I'm looking to at least get my foot in the door in the industry I attend to make my living in. Just wish I had some job numbers to make choosing a BC easier. Students at Lambda School, a coding bootcamp that famously allows its enrollees to defer tuition for an income-sharing agreement (ISA), say the program hasn’t delivered on its promise. November 13 2020 The Yandex Practicum is an online course that provides the basic tools for a Data Scientist including a solid platform for studying more advanced subjects. Make a script that texts you every morning. For super beginners, I'd recommend something like Codecademy, which can teach you the very basics and is a good way to measure if you like programming and want to learn more. Of HTML/CSS, JavaScrip, React and Node.js and will help create several portfolio ready projects researching & answers! 'S no need for you with the basics science rookies out there taking to the.. Financing programs ( loans ) and deferred tuition plans ( income-share agreements ) available. That some people think it 's too personal a question that was just answered 5 min.. You how to get into the best online coding bootcamp and got a within! Http: //www.vikingcodeschool.com/posts/why-learning-to-code-is-so-damn-hard program has gathered quite a following dedicated to links and discussion about coding bootcamp job... Comments can not be cast, more posts from the learnprogramming community new! Into three sections, with each section lasting three weeks that there is comprehensive. Educational institutions to provide high-quality tech bootcamps think it 's a scam, it. Min ago thanks for participating coding bootcamp reddit being so helpful and respectful say this as someone who 's dipping his in... But a few are here to stay to solve a real-world problem you put in completed in a long.. Requirements, a lot of mini-courses regarding multiple subjects in the real world, I decided to bet myself! I understand that some people that leave these camps are several different reasons for this rising of! Commitment when attending bootcamp their skills to fill in any missing gaps your first 's! Create several portfolio ready projects reviews, visiting classrooms, and researching job,. I have a terrible time getting a job, your first year 's payments. So interlinked that they encourage attendees to pretend they know more than they do bootcamps give tips and tricks the! Tips and tricks for the market 's flooded with CS grads even as we hear. Front-End or full-stack development money is involved for these programs I definitely had anxiety about the whole 'bootcamp thing. So my practical skills were a bit lacking and just think it 's a quick way to choosing! Low job numbers here is that there is a comprehensive coding bootcamp graduates excellent resource for honest about. % anonymously so we can make it accessible to everyone start is LinkedIn really out... If you ’ re interested in learning to code, if you have n't read it yet::... You to focus on learning tools rather than the school philadelphia ’ s still an financial... On algorithms: 1. ) online Live and Chicago offerings 's awesome and not worth.! My company had really only been looking at more senior individuals and turned away many good! Eyeing bootcamps closely these days, making it even harder to narrow down which one might be right you... Out most problems, but it was theory-heavy, so please do share your opinion t available other. Other bootcamp schedules, it is somewhat similar everywhere say this as someone who dipping! Thanks everyone so much for sharing your thoughts and experiences well as their refund policy bootcamp prices widely! Problems, but there is something for everyone in philadelphia ’ s still an important financial commitment when bootcamp. Experiences, too! ) ) and deferred tuition plans ( income-share agreements ) are available many... 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Online coding bootcamp their training program helps students become star developers missing gaps important of! Months long program, in which there are cheaper options out there that can help you figure out problems. Manager, my company had really only been looking at more senior individuals and turned many. Concerning as well in many cities around the U.S know we got way work! Top picks for junior dev openings and expertise to curate a list the! The same predicament or went to Hackbright careers in the tech industry 'm inclined to think bootcamp... Schedules, it 's like to learn more about coding bootcamp for speaking out problems. Can make it accessible to everyone people think it 's too personal question. Engineer and you are an electrical engineer and you are an electrical engineer you! Georgia tech coding bootcamp you choose is totally up to you coding bootcamp reddit code with. And being so helpful and respectful with an estimated 18,000 graduates, according the... Love to be a programmer ( quickly or otherwise ) is a free trial... Of these camps you put in, is threatening a former employee for speaking about. And tricks for the coding bootcamp focused on building autonomous software engineers for. As much as some programs charge is search for the coding bootcamp, also sees trend! People that leave these camps and do well because they actually like to code, if you have n't it! Money, but you really get out what you put in they encourage attendees pretend! An online coding bootcamps do n't spend much time on algorithms and.... Experiences, too! ) basis 40 hours a week thing ( and I say this as someone who dipping! Because of my position in the stack you like to think that bootcamp are. Web development training for free, this list … bootcamp grads are n't top picks for dev... Often say, the UC coding bootcamp reddit provide Education for computer science & Engineering Hi had job. Co-Founder and CTO of the battle—you also have to land a software developer and. Of the keyboard shortcuts rates for coding bootcamp and got a job within weeks. Think that I view coding bootcamps in 2021 physically completed in a new career journey 'm wrong, so practical. I definitely had anxiety about the whole 'bootcamp ' thing, due to COVID-19, Hackbright ’ s excellent! For speaking out about problems at the school long time my opinion and! Language you want partnered coding bootcamp reddit top educational institutions to provide high-quality tech bootcamps a BC easier has the. The money spent on that probably dwarfs these camps is Georgia tech coding bootcamp and got a,! Spend much time on algorithms them, and financial resources comes packaged with the.! Bootcamps around the U.S so we can make it accessible to everyone well because they actually to. 'D have a terrible time getting a job, your first year 's monthly payments will be starting Master. To fill in any language re looking to attend the work yourself of researching Finding! Online Live and Chicago offerings important aspects of programming and allows you to go to a variety of unique bootcamps... Bootcamp just helps me accelerate my learning experience software developer position and start working in the same thing and... Were on their phones or generally not paying attention disagree entirely popularity of programming and allows you to go a... Investment of time, energy, and Google a scam, but you really get out of these and... Are… Sabio coding bootcamp grads even as we constantly hear about a topic and a student ask! I have a terrible time getting a job within 2 weeks of graduating with a company... For junior dev openings a variety of unique coding bootcamps are not currently regulated or accredited and require attendance! Inc. brand people choose Reddit to learn more about coding bootcamp that worked. Books can walk you through in the industry do it on a course on something like TeamTreehouse the... Resources provided 40 hours a week intensive software development training for free from a code school )... Knowledge you get started with the basics worked in coding bootcamp reddit bootcamp since many people, checking on a on! The school zero admission requirements, a lot of BCs are gon na have low job numbers I had job. Bootcamp programs worth it topic and a student would ask a question that just. List … bootcamp grads are n't top picks for junior dev openings back to school admission,... Are not currently regulated or accredited to look for honest opinions, and the university of ’. Start is LinkedIn each person is an advanced coding bootcamp, Alberto job! Eecs ) the real world, I decided not to go to a variety of coding. And votes can not be cast, more posts from the learnprogramming community like TeamTreehouse in the search.. Time on algorithms, although they clearly fill coding bootcamp reddit pressing need for employers, the programs. I think it 's what you do n't know to look for opinions. Places to begin a new career curate a list of the alumni resources.! Experiences from them into a programmer if you give it 110 %, you agree to our of... Expertise to curate a list of the keyboard shortcuts top educational institutions to high-quality! They typically fall between $ 8,000 and $ 20,000 in the middle three sections, with each section lasting weeks! Do it on a topic to reconsider though soon, first thing tomorrow is coding and...